The Secret Art of Subtle Selling - Outside Sales Talk with Aleasha Bahr

Aleasha Bahr is a sales expert and international sales closing coach known for showing people the Secret Art of Subtle Selling. She transitioned from a successful corporate career in outside sales to coaching solopreneurs and sales teams with her unique sales approach, which regularly doubles, or even triples, their results.

In this episode, Aleasha discusses the importance of authoritative empathy, a genuine desire to help, and natural conversation when it comes to closing a deal.

Here are some of the topics covered in this episode:

• Overcoming the ‘pushy salesperson’ perception
• Empathizing with prospects as humans who have feelings
• Engaging with prospects through bite-sized selling
• Building rapport and active listening during pitches

About the Guest:

Aleasha is here to help people bring humanity back to sales and make a killing doing it. She teaches businesses and sales teams how to close 90% of their high-ticket leads without feeling inauthentic and believes that a salesperson will be more effective if they “don’t sell like a salesperson” - authenticity and empathy are a salesperson’s greatest tools. If you’re closing under 40%, give Aleasha a call and she’d be happy to help you out!

Website: https://www.aleashabahr.com/

Email: aleasha@aleashabahr.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bahraleasha/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aleashabahr/

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Transcript - The Secret Art of Subtle Selling with Aleasha Bahr

Introducing Aleasha Bahr [00:00]

Aleasha: I often say—people think that they’re bad at sales—something that comes up a lot—or that the sales conversation is different than a conversation with a friend. But it’s actually the same conversation that you have convincing your friend to go to a movie with you or convincing your kid to eat their vegetables or convincing your spouse to go on a vacation or whatever. You’re using the same formula of persuading them. The only difference is that you don’t know what’s going to persuade the person yet—so the sales conversation includes questions.

Steve: This is Outside Sales Talk, the best podcast for outside salespeople. I’m your host, Steve Benson, and we’re here to chat with the world’s top sales experts so that you can get their best sales tactics to level up your game. Welcome back to Outside Sales Talk. Today we have Aleasha Bahr with us and she’s going to talk about the secret art of subtle selling. Aleasha, welcome to the show.

Aleasha: Thank you so much, Steve—I’m so excited to be here.

Steve: Well—by way of introduction—Aleasha is a sales expert known for showing people the secret art of subtle selling. She transitioned from a successful corporate career in outside sales to coaching solopreneurs and sales teams with her unique sales approach that regularly doubles and triples their results. Aleasha is here to help people bring humanity back to sales and make a killing doing it.

The Art of Subtle Selling [01:30]

Steve: Really excited to have you on the show here, Aleasha—let’s jump into it. First, can you give us a brief overview of what subtle selling is all about?

Aleasha: Yeah—so I like to think that subtle selling is timeless—but there’s definitely been some eras in sales—and just like marketing—people become a little desensitized to them or more savvy. So the older tactics don’t work as well. Subtle selling is avoiding those tactics and weaving it into a more natural conversation exchange—parts of the conversation where the person isn’t expecting you to be selling—so that they don’t even really notice that you’re selling them.

Steve: Okay—that makes a ton of sense to me. What are some things that salespeople miss out on when they’re more pushy with prospects or customers—when they’re not subtle about things?

Aleasha: I think they lose trust. So the thing about subtle selling is—whenever you have certain sales language or tactics that people know—their red flags go up in their brain that make them not absorb what you’re saying. They automatically think that you’re probably embellishing or selling—and they’re not really listening. And they’re definitely like—this person is selling me—so there’s trust lost there. And nobody buys from anyone that they don’t trust—like that’s pretty much why you buy from someone—you trust what they’re saying.

Empathy in Sales Conversations [03:08]

Steve: Sure. And when are those times that you can be subtle that are outside of the actual sales pitch—or when you’re actually sitting down to discuss the sale and the stuff that’s germane to the business part of your meeting? What are some other great times—and how do you subtly work in the sale under those times?

Aleasha: Yeah—I found the best time to do it is really during the discovery period when you’re asking questions. So based on their answer—you can empathize with them—which is important—and then offer a little something about what you do that solves whatever their answer was. For example—if you’re an agency and you ask a business owner—what have you done in the past? What was your experience with agencies if you’ve worked with them before? And they say—the communication is always pretty awful—all we do is get a report once a month—you know, this is a common complaint. So empathizing and saying—yes, we hear that a lot—it’s frustrating when you’re paying someone and it feels like they’re really slow to adjust things based on results. And that’s why we have weekly meetings to make sure that doesn’t happen. Then you go to the next question—so it’s sliding it in while their defenses are down.

Steve: Okay—and I love what you did there. People talk about empathy all the time—especially in a post-corona world here. I feel like that’s one of the things in the world of sales we hear about a lot—but there’s so much more to it than just seeing things from other people’s perspective. And I think it’s subtle what you just did right there—but tell me about how you use empathy in these situations and how you just did that—and what’s the formula for—well, first, what does empathy mean to you—and what’s the formula for how you used it right there?

Aleasha: Yeah—so I do something that I call authoritative empathy. Some people can empathize too much where they’re just like—that is so hard—I am so sorry—that is really tough—and it’s like—well, now I just feel like shit—but it’s more like—yeah, I’ve been there—I know what you’re talking about—I’ve heard this before—type of thing. And if you can provide a little bit of insight that even clarifies their feeling a little further—then they feel even more understood by you. So when people feel understood—they feel like you understand how to solve their problem. For example—someone who’s talking to a dating coach—they’re talking about how they’ve been lonely and they explain some things—and they’re like—yeah, that’s really hard—and sometimes it can feel like you’re never going to meet someone—like—is this my life?—it’s a permanent life sentence—but it’s not—and we’ve worked with a lot of people in your exact situation—there’s no red flags that tell me that there’s a reason this couldn’t be solved. And all you need to do is come up with some action steps—not just talk therapy—but action steps to correct this—it’s just replacing negative behavior patterns. And that’s why the first thing we focus on in our program is adjusting your negative behavior patterns—so tell me—what has your relationship history been like before? So you go on to the next question—but that little bit of insight—they’re like—yeah, it does feel like I might be alone forever. That’s a very basic example—but being able to provide that extra layer—so you’re not just parroting back what they said—which is a common sales technique—really makes them feel like it’s not fake empathy.

Steve: Yeah—it’s not just—I get it, I get it—it’s—I get it—and here’s a bit of wisdom about that—and here’s what we can do next—and then you ask the next question to further the discussion—if I were to formularize it, I guess.

Aleasha: Yes—exactly—authoritative empathy—how we address it. And the authoritative part is bringing them to the other side of that—so instead of living in this painful experience that happened—let’s address that it sucked—and now it’s not going to suck—yay!

Building Rapport and Trust [07:32]

Steve: I love it. And what are some of your tips? A lot of this obviously has to do with listening—before you can empathize, you have to have listened and really understood your prospect and what they’re saying. What are your tips for better listening—when you’re meeting with prospects—really getting what they’re truly saying?

Aleasha: I think it’s so important to pay attention to facial expressions and tone of voice—and to clarify—because there’s a lot more to be said for what they’re not saying. Also paying attention to their language—so a lot of people will just brush past when someone’s like—you ask—does that sound like it would be helpful for what you’re going through—and they’re like—yeah—but they say yes and then you blow past it—instead of being like—well, it sounds like there’s some hesitation—what’s going on?—is there a piece of it you feel is missing?—and digging into that further. So being able to hear and see on their face—and if they’re not being weird—if they’re like—actually I was just holding in a sneeze and so I was making a weird face—then you’re like—okay, great, let’s move on—but they’re not offended that you’re trying to dig in further. A lot of times people feel like if they’re trying to clarify—it’s pushy or something—but it’s usually pretty appreciated by the other person because you genuinely care about understanding what their needs are.

Steve: And when you understand someone’s needs and you’ve listened to them and you’ve provided value by advancing the conversation with authoritative empathy—that all builds a ton of rapport. What else would you say are some suggestions you have from the subtle selling perspective about how you can better build rapport with customers?

Aleasha: Yeah—trust—rapport specifically—is really good for trust-building—like having that relationship where it’s—I’m a human, you’re a human—we’re here trying to solve a problem for you—I’m not a gross salesperson trying to take your money—and you’re not just this person that I want money from—you have a life and a mother, brother, sister, father, kids, whatever—hobbies. Being able to relate in that way that’s beyond why y’all are coming together builds so much trust. But another thing that makes a big difference in subtle selling is being able to ask—and I know this isn’t a novel concept—but asking them questions that allow them to sell themselves—so not like—does that make sense?—yeah—does that sound right?—yeah—that concept where if they say yes enough times, then they’ll say yes at the end. Talking about—if somebody says—how do I know if I give you this one investment fee that y’all will be dedicated to supporting me forever?—you’ve already got my money—the normal salesperson would probably overcome that with some explanation about support calls or something—but instead I would ask—have you had a situation where you paid one time and didn’t get support?—and if they’re like—yeah—then you’re like—what was the situation?—and you dig into it—and then you can compare it to you and how it’s different—so in that way—they’re coming up with—yeah, that is different—themselves—as you ask questions to them—so does that make sense?

Handling Objections with Subtlety [11:20]

Steve: Yeah—you’re totally making sense—that answers the question wonderfully. Rapport is just so important—and I think answering people’s questions is a key piece of it. And all the things around the meeting—like you were talking about before—that subtly build rapport as well—outside of the meeting and before—when you walk in the door—the impression you’re making—getting coffee before the meeting—all these things you can leverage to build rapport in general. Do you have any other thoughts about rapport with subtle selling? I feel like this is a key piece of what you’re doing and what you’re talking about.

Aleasha: It’s really important to understand—and a lot of times it’s easy to forget—that this person has had a day—they’ve had a day before you got there—and they’ve got stuff to do after you leave—you’re just a part of it—and you might not even be a part that they’re looking forward to—and it’s not personal—they might have had a bad day—they might have had a good day. So being sensitive to that—and overall—people remember—there’s that Maya Angelou quote—they don’t remember what you say, but they remember how you made them feel. So they associate a feeling with their meeting with you—so whether they’ve had a bad or good day—if you can make them feel good and happy and hopeful—so that when they leave that meeting—they’re like—man, I’m ready to get this day—they’re going to want to work with you more.

Steve: It makes a ton of sense—people do business with the people they like—in the end. I think that’s a lesson that seems so obvious—but so many of our actions in the modern world—if you examine them—you would think that we forgot that in many cases.

Aleasha: Yeah—it’s so easy to be like—don’t they understand that this thing I’m selling them is going to change their life?—but then you back up and you’re like—look, I know that you have a lot on your plate—did you already have five meetings this morning?—yeah, I had a lot of meetings this morning—that’s hard—do you want to take a break?—do you want to have a YouTube video break and then we can get back to it?—that kind of empathy and understanding of somebody—and how you’re not the center of their world—and that’s fine—and how can I help you in spite of all the other things you have going on—is so appreciated and refreshing.

Steve: Yeah—it’s been interesting to see over the course of my career how much less people do this sort of stuff. Early in my career—a lot more business got done on the golf course or over dinner or getting drinks—or some activity with our customers—whether it was a quick lunch or a steak dinner with four cocktails. And I think that a lot of this is changing in the world that we’re in today too. As a data point for people—it’s the middle of the coronavirus crisis—should you be listening to this in late 2021 or something—hopefully 2020 is in the distant rearview mirror for you at this point.

Aleasha: And you’re like—woo, thank God that’s over.

Steve: Yeah—but especially in these times—where we lost a lot of the ways that we can empathize—that we can be subtle—have the opportunities to have these subtle interactions with people—we can listen to them—you can’t just chill and hang out in a Zoom meeting with someone—that’d be weird—but if you’re going out to get dinner or drinks—you can talk about—most of the time you’re going to be talking about other things—you’re not going to be talking about the business part of the business.

Aleasha: Yeah—the relationship-building piece of it. One of the things that I really like in this post-corona period is—I think that people are interesting—just naturally and fun—and everyone’s got diverse stories and quirks—so I always like to find something that I can learn from them in the beginning as a way to establish rapport—like—ooh, I’ve never done that—what’s it like?—even like—what’s your view?—I’m looking at this right now—I’m looking at the ocean—man, that’s nice—so some kind of conversation that’s beyond—that’s deeper.

Bite-Sized Selling Technique [15:53]

Steve: I’ve heard you talk about a cool thing you do when pitching—a technique you call bite-size selling. Could you tell me—and our listeners—a little bit about bite-size selling? What is it? How do you use it? Where is it useful? Talk to us about this method.

Aleasha: Yeah—so it goes with what I was talking about earlier—where when you get to the pitch part—where you have a sales monologue—basically the person’s defenses go up—you can visually see it—or hear it if you’re on the phone—where you ask the questions and they’re engaged—and then you’re like—okay, well let me pitch you on my thing—and they lean back and they’re like—okay, here it comes—come on—and they’re not going to absorb it the same as if you were giving them little pieces and then asking them questions about each piece. So being able to be like—yeah, so one of the things that really differentiates us is that we have four live phone calls that you can tune into at any time for any support that you need forever—so does that seem like it would be helpful for you and different from what you’ve experienced before?—yeah, it would—and there can be some conversation about that point. So at no point do they feel like they’re just leaning back tuning you out.

Steve: So bite-size selling—in essence—is bringing up one point at a time and getting feedback from them—so you’re keeping them engaged—rather than running through your five bullet points—bring up the bullet point—ask if it’ll be useful for them and get a response.

Aleasha: Yeah—something beyond—makes sense—because people can still tune out and say—makes sense—and then they don’t have any idea what happened at the end of the conversation.

Steve: Gotcha—that makes sense—that would really be much more engaging.

Aleasha: Yeah—I feel like they absorb it better. It’s also bite-size selling during the discovery period—like I was talking about before—you do empathy and then a little thing—so the more times that they hear these little points that solve whatever is specifically painful for them—the more they remember it. Ideally—you want your prospect to leave the sales conversation remembering as much as possible—because if you think about it—how many times have you had a sales conversation—and if that person had to tell their higher-up or their spouse about it—what would they say?—it would be a terrible game of telephone.

Steve: Right—that’s a challenge. I think a lot of salespeople need to keep in mind—especially in these times when maybe you’re not getting everyone into the room the way you’d like to—a lot of times you’re enabling the person that you’re selling to—who kind of already believes in the thing that you’re talking about a lot of the time—but they need to turn around and go and sell it to the rest of their organization. And this was true in pre-corona times—but in these times—I think it’s often even more true. So giving them the tools to go have those conversations—walking them through things in such a way that they can—and giving them a leave-behind that they can then go and walk someone else through something in the same clean way—I think is really important.

Aleasha: Yeah—and when you ask questions—it’s not just trigger yeses—they have to actually think about what you said to answer honestly—and sometimes you’ll even hear them be like—wait, can you repeat that?—because they were tuning you out.

Creating a Conversational Sales Environment [19:35]

Steve: Yeah—so true. What about objections? How can salespeople tackle objections using subtle selling? How does that play a part here?

Aleasha: Yeah—so again—whenever somebody has an objection—they immediately have a red flag that goes up in their brain—they’re expecting you to overcome it—they’re half going to believe whatever you say—because they think you’re just going to make it sound as good as possible and dismiss it—so having a pattern interrupt there—and not doing that—but instead asking them a question that uncovers more of the objection—because the truth is—a lot of times we just assume why people are asking things. So for example—if somebody was like—how much time—I’m concerned that I’m going to be spending a lot of time on this—and somebody might be like—well, it’s really just—but instead be like—well, how much time do you have?—what does that look like?—how much time are you looking for?—and that makes it a conversation about the objection—and they don’t have a guard up about selling.

Steve: Yeah—that is subtle—I like it. Are there any specific words or phrases that salespeople should avoid—so that they don’t come off pushy—and so that they can stay in this subtle zone?

Aleasha: Yeah—so I’m a little controversial in this area—but I think that the most successful sales conversation is that—at the end—the person doesn’t even know—like forgot that they were on a sales call—and they thought they were just talking to somebody who was helping them—like in an appointment too—like a face-to-face outside sales appointment. So saying things like—pre-contract—pre-selling the contract—like—hey, I’m going to ask you some questions and then you’re going to ask me some questions and then we’ll see if it’s a fit—I feel like that just makes everybody feel like we’re having a sales conversation—and it’s kind of unnecessary—because honestly—that’s how every conversation goes—why would this conversation be any different?—it’s just letting them know—by the way, I’m going to sell you something. I like to just start going into questions—have some rapport and then ask them about their situation—so that there’s never really this establishment of—hey, here’s a sales convo that we’re about to have. Another thing that is really rough is when someone’s like—where are you on this on a scale of one to ten?—have you heard that?

Steve: Sure—anything that takes people’s temperature and tries to get them to explain where their heads are at right now—at the beginning of a conversation—or that sort of thing.

Aleasha: Yeah—or even at the end of a conversation—I think those feel so much like selling—so there are other ways of asking the same question—like—so what’s your timeline for this?—do you need to get this done soon?—is there a rush on it?—and then there’s also other things you can ask—like—does this sound like something that your boss is looking for?—if you’re having to have that conversation—or the chief of marketing would like—those are going to give you a better answer than—where are you on a scale of one to ten?

Steve: Yeah—one thing that I’ve always done that I’ve found really helpful is—I try to talk to prospects and clients as if they were my friend’s company—and I’m just being brought in as a consultant because I know a lot about this thing—so I talk to them in a way that’s very collegial and friendly—as if we already had some kind of outside relationship—and I actually didn’t have any skin in the game—and I was just kind of an expert in something—and I’m filling them in—and I don’t have a horse in the race either way. By keeping it casual and making it very conversational—I think it does what you’re talking about—where you’re removing salesy language—and you’re just able to sit down and try to help solve someone’s problem—and when they ask questions, you can answer them—but I’ve always liked to try to keep it as if we were colleagues or friends—as opposed to a sales relationship.

Aleasha: I could not agree more. I often say—people think that they’re bad at sales—something that comes up a lot—or that the sales conversation is different than a conversation with a friend—but it’s actually the same conversation that you have—like convincing your friend to go to a movie with you or convincing your kid to eat their vegetables or convincing your spouse to go on a vacation or whatever—you’re using the same formula of persuading them. The only difference is that you don’t know what’s going to persuade the person yet—so the sales conversation includes questions.

Steve: Yeah—absolutely. I remember getting in trouble at one of my earlier sales jobs for behaving that way—they’re like—you’ve got to stick to the script—you’ve got to go through each slide in order because the marketing team figured out this is the best order—and I was like—I’m sure it’s the best order—but it’s better if I put up the slides and then we just all hang out and talk—if there’s a slide that will show what I’m talking about really well—I’m like—actually there’s a slide about this—let me jump to it—and I might end up getting through all the slides—but I would do it as they came up in conversation—and I would just keep it really casual. In general—I think that resonated with people because it felt more consultative—or it felt like we were on the same side of the table.

Aleasha: Yeah—like we’re on the same team—what’s going on? I think what a lot of people feel like they have to do is cover every single element of what they offer—but not every single element is going to apply to this person—so what you’re talking about is basically customizing it to them—like—so what do you need to know about?—here, let’s focus on this—and then all the other stuff is just a nice bonus—but it’s not something you need to be like—okay, check that box, check that box—because you have a limited attention span with somebody—so you really want to focus on the things that matter to them. What if you wasted talking about all this other stuff that marketing said you had to cover—but you didn’t—and just that whole concept in general of—you have to do it this way—if I’m selling—why do you care?—let the numbers—as long as it’s ethical—do it.

Selling Hope: The Art of Closing Deals [26:51]

Steve: Yeah—absolutely. What about closing deals? You mentioned some talk paths to avoid—but what should you do to shift things towards a closure conversation—while not being pushy—but being subtle?

Aleasha: Yeah—so I’m really big into what I like to call selling hope—so it’s like—okay, this is where you’ve been—or what you’re stuck in—and now this is what it’s going to be like—so you’re painting—like—this is how we work with our clients—so eventually you’ll—usually you’ll see results in the first two weeks—or it takes two weeks to onboard and then you’ll start seeing results by four weeks—you’ll probably need to hire extra staff that month—making it sound like it’s already happening to them—it’s kind of like an assumptive close in a way. And getting really excited about it—like—it’s such a relief to have this software managing this for you—it’s going to clear up so much time of your day—what can you imagine you’re going to do?—how much are you spending on this stuff without software?—maybe two hours a day?—what would you do with two hours a day?—well, I’d do this—doesn’t that sound so much more enjoyable?—let’s just be real here—which one would you rather be doing?—and just getting excited about it to the point where you’re like—all right, let’s do this—let’s do it.

Steve: Yeah—I love it—so it closes itself kind of naturally—if you’ve put them in the headspace of having it—they agree with the value proposition and they want to get to that place—then—okay, so what’s the next step?—well, you sign right here on this dotted line.

Aleasha: Yeah—they usually end up asking you—and if they’re not asking you—it’s like—well, what’s your timeline on this?—should we celebrate now?—because your life’s about to change moving forward?

Navigating Setbacks: Overcoming Objections [28:55]

Steve: I like it. What about setbacks? How should salespeople react—or what should they do—when they experience a setback in a sales situation—while still staying within this subtle framework?

Aleasha: Like what’s an example of that?

Steve: Well—like let’s just say that in this closing conversation—you’re talking about—so are we going to—should we start celebrating?—and they’re like—we’re going to have to wait a little while on this—because the CFO told me that we’re not going to be able to spend any money until next summer because of coronavirus—that’s probably a common objection people are hearing a lot right now. How do you stay subtle but overcome a setback like that?

Aleasha: Yeah—so I think it’s really just about understanding it more—and one of the things that I really like to bring up is—okay, so what are you going to do in the meantime to solve this issue?—is there an alternative plan in place?—and there might be a way that you could just offer a portion or a piece of what you do instead—based on what their needs are—because a lot of times they don’t have an alternative plan—and if they were to be like—we have this other thing that’s doing an okay job—like—what’s missing from this other thing?—hopefully you would have uncovered all of this stuff in the conversation—but if you haven’t—I think it’s just about understanding it further and having a conversation about it—so that it doesn’t feel like you’re trying to push or sell—you’re trying to understand and help. As long as you’re coming from a genuinely helpful place—I’ve never found someone to be irritated.

Sales in 60 Seconds - Quickfire Sales Tips [30:44]

Steve: The next section is Sales in 60 Seconds—so quick questions, quick answers. First of all, Aleasha—what’s the number one key to differentiating yourself from your competitors?

Aleasha: So I really like to empower someone with the questions that they should ask competitors—I don’t like to trash-talk any of my competitors—but I like to say—if you’re talking to other people—these are the things you want to make sure that you have covered—because if not—those are the things we do—because if not—blah, blah, blah.

Steve: Yeah—great advice. That’s always the first thing—whenever a competitor comes up—I tell my salespeople—just ask the customer if they’ve seen their mobile app—have you seen their mobile app?—have you used it?—you should check that out—you should really check that out—just go try to use it—it’ll answer all your questions—you’ll have all you need to know if you get this information from the competitor.

Aleasha: Yeah—you can say things like—often one of the frustrations will be that they don’t have a text notification option or whatever—like you can say in more of a general sense—a lot of issues that people have with the other kinds is this or something.

Steve: A lot of customers tell me after they switch to us that the key reason they really made the switch was XYZ.

Aleasha: Yeah—and that’s the perfect stuff to ask somebody—like—you want to check that the other thing has XYZ—and then they go check and they’re like—it doesn’t—so it answers it for them.

Steve: What tips do you have for a sales rep to become customer-ready before each meeting? What’s the prep work?

Aleasha: Well—it depends on what they’re having a meeting about—if you’re meeting with a business—I think it’s really important to know something about the business before you go in and be able to comment genuinely on it—look at their website—if you ask them a question that’s on their website or their about information—that’s just really annoying—like you do not care at all. And then I think it’s also important to—like you said—put yourself in the frame of mind that—this is not about me—this is entirely about them—let me really understand the problem—because once you really understand it—and it is something you can solve—the selling just naturally happens because you literally have the solution. It’s just really focusing on the other person—and putting—have to pay bills—have to hit goal—completely out of your mind—and relax and remember that this is just a human—like a person who—had a day—didn’t have a day—has hobbies. Another interesting one is—I love to know what people ate—like if they’re like—yeah, I just had breakfast—what’d you have?—I think it’s so interesting.

Steve: That’s a good way to connect with people too—it’s a good way to get the conversation started—especially if it’s breakfast time—people have their own little routines for breakfast.

Aleasha: Totally—or lunch—what’d you have for lunch?—I just think it’s super interesting—and then it gets into a conversation about what’s your go-to?—everyone’s got a different go-to.

Steve: I have a buddy that eats a cheese and bagel sandwich every single day for lunch—and he’s rich—an executive at a big company—but bagel and cheese sandwich and a cup of coffee or something—I forget—really?—bagel and cheese?—come on, man—get some Uber Eats up in there.

Aleasha: That’s so sad—honestly—like that sounds like it would make me tired afterwards.

Steve: Well—it’s a brick of Trader Joe’s cheese and a bag of bagels—he buys it every Sunday and then he eats it all week—I’m like—this is horrifying, man—but it would be very interesting to be in a sales meeting if I’d been asking that and found that out.

Aleasha: And be like—really?—what got you started on that?—is that a nostalgic thing?

Steve: I just love bagels and cheese—he’s from Wisconsin—the cheese is a little nostalgic for him, I suspect—he’s a good buddy of mine from college—we went to college together in Wisconsin—the rumors are true—they eat a lot of cheese in Wisconsin.

Aleasha: Stereotype is legit.

Steve: I still eat a lot of cheese—just from growing up in the Midwest—people are like—you’re eating a lot of cheese—I’m like—I’m going to die of a heart attack—it’s sad, but it’s going to happen.

Aleasha: I mean—cheese is super delicious—I always think it’s very strange when people don’t like cheese—and my daughter naturally doesn’t like cheese—she’s not even two—but any cheese in front of her—she will spit it out—if it’s part of something—she takes it out and eats the rest—it’s very intense.

Steve: This proves this is a good question to ask people—what—

Aleasha: This is what I’m talking about—you relate as just people.

Steve: Talking about food—just humans doing human things. Can you name one essential habit or trait that you think will lead to greater success in sales?

Aleasha: I think that if you genuinely come from a helpful place—it’s going to help you succeed in sales—and I think also finding something interesting or fun in every conversation that you have—one pitfall that I notice with a lot of salespeople is—they get complacent because they’re having a very repetitive conversation—and you have to remember that it’s not repetitive for the other person—so they just feel like you’re super disinterested in what’s going on in their life—and are not interested in really moving forward with you because of that. The more fun and variety and diversity you can keep it—and then also just really trying to come from a place of—how can I help you solve this—you’re always going to win.

Steve: I think this is so important—especially in these times—it’s so easy—especially if you’re talking over the phone to customers—it feels like you’ve had the same conversation a thousand times in the same way—that’s one great thing about face-to-face interactions—they’re always new and it’s very human—I think Zoom calls and phone calls—they can all start to feel the same.

Aleasha: Yeah—and it’s boring for the salesperson—not only does it not equal sales—it’s also just unenjoyable.

Steve: Yeah—here I am demoing the same thing for the thousandth time—we’re talking about the same stuff for the thousandth time—from this room that I work in—it’s important to keep your energy up and to keep excited and keep it—don’t act like this is the thousandth time you’ve had the conversation—I think that’s important and hard to do.

Aleasha: Right—because your energy is everything in sales—people definitely feel it—to the point where I personally recommend—some people are doing sales calls during burnout thinking that they’re going to get better numbers—but usually it’s the opposite—you’re wasting all of your time—and you will sell so much more if you just take a moment and recharge—but then also—when you’re bored with a conversation—you get lazy and you don’t mention things that you should—you don’t dig where you should—you’re just complacent and lazy.

Steve: And you fall into a rut—rather than answering questions—you just go into your sales pitch and it’s almost automatic—and it’s more important to make it a conversation—which is easier if you’re showing up in someone’s office—sitting down at a new place—the transition is easier—if things are over the phone or Zoom—it’s important to keep that energy high on that. What’s one thing that you share in every sales training?

Aleasha: I really like to tell people that they don’t have to do things a certain way—if they’re doing something that doesn’t feel good to them—the prospect can feel that—if it doesn’t feel good to you—it doesn’t feel good to the other person—if it does—the other person feels that—so look back at your process and the things that you feel like you have to do—think about how you feel in them—but also think about the customer’s response—because a lot of times you’ll notice—when you feel weird—the response isn’t great.

Steve: And so many salespeople get accused of being lone wolves—but the sales process was written by someone who’s never sold anything and wrote it from behind a desk—so it is worth questioning sales processes and bringing up—in the real world—if we were to do it that way—it’s a little weird because of this—so maybe we should think about doing it a different way—I’ve seen so many times a sales trainer or a marketer designs the process—and it’s like—the people that have been selling this for the last 10 years—let’s see how they think we should be doing it.

Aleasha: My God—it’s so irritating when someone who does not talk to the customers comes up with the sales process—but also—I think it’s a matter of different personalities—like your personality worked better having a casual conversation with these people—everybody’s different—so whoever created this process is a different personality—it’s the same thing as—some people want to be formal in emails and some people want to be casual—so why not customize it to you?—whatever is a custom-tailored fit for you is going to work better.

Steve: Yeah—what’s the greatest sales lesson that you think you’ve learned over the years?

Aleasha: Yeah—that’s kind of a hard one—I think it’s probably this objection thing—it’s called hot potato—they’re giving you a hot potato—like—answer this—dance, monkey—and then you’re like—I give it back to you—you ask them a question that answers it further—so like—how do I know this is not a scam?—have you been scammed before?—or if they have to talk to a million references—is there something about the program that feels off to you?—which part?—let me understand—so it’s that hot potato thing—give it back—don’t take it.

Steve: Well—as an actionable takeaway—what should the field salespeople listening today do as a first step towards getting started on selling more subtly?

Aleasha: So I have a video called The Six Things You Can Do to Immediately Close More Business—and it’s at aleashabahr.com.

Summary and Conclusion [42:31]

Steve: Okay—we will put that in the show notes below—a link to that—because that sounds fantastic. So I’m going to try to summarize everything that Aleasha has given us today here—to the best of my ability. First—when you’re pushy in sales—it makes prospects and customers lose trust in you—so you can try instead Aleasha’s version of subtle selling—so that you can build more trust as you sell. The discovery period is a great time to start subtly selling—ask questions here to understand your prospect’s challenges and address ways that your service or solution can help them. Aleasha recommends using authoritative empathy to show that you understand your prospect’s problems and that you’re interested in helping them. You can build rapport by asking your prospects questions that allow them to sell themselves—making your prospects feel happy and hopeful after they leave a meeting with you—and you can also use bite-size selling to help your prospects stay engaged during your pitch and walk away from your call remembering everything important about what you do. Listen closely to how your prospects answer questions—so that you can pull out any potential objections that they might have—then ask questions to follow up on how they’re really feeling. Customize each sales conversation that you have with a prospect—don’t feel the need to cover each point that you’ve prepared—instead, follow the conversation and include your value along the way—that’s that bite-size selling. Help your prospect get excited about your product and realize the value that they will gain—and that way you can move the deal towards the close. Finally—if salespeople experience setbacks while they’re selling—they can take time to ask questions and understand any objections that maybe didn’t come up earlier. Well—this has been awesome, Aleasha—where can listeners read more about your work?—how do they learn more about you?—how do they reach out to you?

Aleasha: Yeah—so I’m on all the social platforms, of course—you can always email me—aleasha@aleashabahr.com—checking out the video—I do have emails that go out that are just pure sales value—so you can get something from that—and of course—if you feel like you could sell more effectively—if you’re closing under 40% generally is what I say—give me a call—I’ll help you.

Steve: Awesome—we’ll put all that in the show notes. This has been a great episode of Outside Sales Talk. If you work in field sales—then you’ll love Badger Maps—which is the number one route planner that helps you sell 20% more and drive 20% less—so you can get a free trial at badgermapping.com today. If anyone can think of any other sales reps that might benefit from learning the skills that Aleasha taught us today—share the love and forward this on to them. Take care until next time, everybody.